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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jun 28, 2010 12:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In the Vault but not in circulation?

1/30/68 - I doubt there's more, as that was a lucky find from a compilation reel. Lemieux said the only new discovery they didn't use on the Road Trips was an Alligator (but he didn't say which show, perhaps we could ask him).

"6/22/68" - you must mean 2/22/68. Since the vocals didn't get recorded, it would be remarkable if any more surfaced.

3/27/69 - Just a misdate for 3/28/69. The "real" 3/27/69 (if there was such a show) has never come out.

There must be lots of '69 shows in the Vault that never circulated. But we don't know which ones.

It's frustrating that Lemieux has played samples from the OTHER 5/3/69 show (not circulating), the also totally-unknown 6/20/69 show, and the tantalizing 6/12/70. I'm pretty sure he has more samples from the Canadian '70 tour than he's played (though perhaps just in bits & pieces from the film-crew recordings). And it would be great to hear the rest of 10/5/70 (though it sounds like a rather tired Dancin'....understandably, with Janis's death hanging over them).

There is more of 9/6/69 in the Vault than we have - Lemieux played a previously unknown Midnight Hour. He also probably has the full 6/4/70 show (he played just the acoustic set).
1/21/71 and 3/17/71 are in the Vault (non-circulating, though we're not missing much).
More importantly, the 5/29/71 SBD is in the Vault (he played the Other One on a radio show once).
And of course, the complete Academy of Music run in March '72! Most of 3/22, 3/26, and 3/27 (and a big chunk of 3/25) don't circulate - and I'd most like to hear 3/26.
The Vault also has various complete SBDs of shows that we just have AUDs for, though I haven't tried putting a list together.

I do wonder where that "11/16/70" Good Lovin' with Jorma actually comes from....it's annoying, first to have just the one song from that source, and also that it's not on the Archive. (It's not a Vault source, anyway.)

There are other little tidbits that circulated in tape days that are still not on the Archive (Auds & studio tapes, usually - like for instance the Pigpen album 'outtakes'), but I don't have a list handy.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jun 28, 2010 3:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In the Vault but not in circulation?

There have been quite a few nuggets that Lemieux made available for streaming, but have not thus far found their way into circulation. When the tapers section at dead.net first came about, i would keep a list of the bits that weren't in circulation or circulated just as audience, but it has been so long since i've been able to keep up on that list, it just dropped out of sight. I did make a couple of posts here on LMA way back when about this. There was a 2/22/68 DS > Chinacat > Eleven > Caution jam that Lemieux made available, and i'd love to see that released. Also a studio Clementine Jam from 9/21/68 that was made avail on the taper section. A bunch of other stuff as well, but as i said, my list is way out of date.

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Poster: Jim F Date: Jun 30, 2010 3:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In the Vault but not in circulation?

My interest was piqued as well when I saw 6/22/68, and thought of the resemblance to the feb 68 bit that Lemieux put up. I really like that one, vocals or no, I'd love to hear the rest, if there is any.

Knowing that there is an uncirculated 68 Alligator almost makes me want to cry...when the '68 Road Trips came out, we got a couple Viola Lee's, I'd have easily taken only one if it meant getting that Alligator!

I agree that it is frustrating re: 5/3/69, 6/20/69. I haven't taken the time to stream what Lemieux has put up, I think it'd be too painful, knowing that there is probably more there. The full 6/4/70 sure would be nice, too. I also wonder if more from 6/5/70 is in there, that's a really nice one, fortunately the AUD is pretty good.

What about 2/5 and 2/8/70? I wonder if more of those exist? Esp 2/5, one can only wonder what went on between Mason's and The Eleven.

Unless there is a Dark Star, Other One, or Alligator from 9/6/69, I'm not too worried about that one. What we do have isn't really anything special, aside from a nice He Was a Friend of Mine. And the era overall was hit or miss, nothing from those Family Dog 69 shows has ever really grabbed me.

I don't recall ANYthing about 6/12/70, did he put up the Other One on the Taper's Section? I'm going to have to look into that one.

For me, one of the holy grails is 3/26/72...Charlie Miller once said he felt it was the best show of the run. Of course he may have just been saying that because he has it and wanted to rub it in lol. Apparently he was told not to circulate it, which is a real shame. I would kill to hear that Other One jam. Personally I don't think the Sugar Magnolia>Other One from 3/28 that they put on the Dick's Picks is really all that great, even though I've never heard it I'd have preferred they put the jam from 3/26 on there.

I would also LOVE a full copy of 3/25 to come out, I think we're missing a decent amount of the Bo Diddley set, in soundboard at least. I really like what circulates from that show from the aud tape (Smokestack, Lonely for Me, which I wish they would have done more of and stretched out on like so many great Garcia versions of the era, etc). One of the AUD's from that show is pretty listenable.

Anyway I think it's probably pretty unanimous that while we probably have the best stuff from that run out there, I think we would all love to hear everything that's there. Someday, perhaps, someday...

Lastly, 5/29/71...I generally don't get too worked up about much of anything from the first half of 71 in terms of what might be missing (1/22), but that is one I'd love to hear. Though I am curious what is on the 3/17 reel.

Deadlist also has a pretty tasty setlist listed for 1/21/71, "without Mickey." Does that even exist?


What is this talk about an 11/16/70 Good Lovin??? In soundboard? I don't think I've ever heard anything about that? Then again I always get 11/11, 11/16, 11/20 and 11/23 confused, on top of the general confusion already surrounding 11/16 or 23. 1970 is just one bi clusterf*&k of confusion, ain't it? Like the July Fillmore shows...I suspect the "11th or 12th" debate will never end.

Isn't the LMA also missing little bits of some of the auds of the Port Chester shows from november?



This post was modified by Jim F on 2010-06-30 10:24:21

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Poster: Jim F Date: Jun 30, 2010 3:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In the Vault but not in circulation?

Oh, also, what about a second set of the "second" 5/3/69? Dark Star>St Stephen>Eleven>Lovelight E:Baby Blue has appeared on lists for years.

And where does Deadbase get it's list for 5/9/69? If accurate, it would be the last performance of New Potato Caboose. Same goes for 10/26/69, our last Doin That Rag, if more than just the partial out there exists. The missing bits for 12/20-21/69 also look interesting, if they in fact exist.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jun 30, 2010 3:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In the Vault but not in circulation?

So many questions!

5/3/69 - The Lovelight Lemieux played was from the afternoon show in Rocklin. (And for 6/20/69, he picked a Lovelight again....it's nice that he's a Pigpen fan, but it would be nice if he selected some other songs too!) As for the Winterland show, it's baffling that both our AUD and our SBD are the first set only....the second set with the Dark Star medley has never appeared, as far as I know, but I do hope it's in the Vault. (Although if the SBD sounds as bad as that first-set SBD, maybe that's why it never came out.)

'69 - No telling where deadbase got its songlist for 5/9/69 (or other dates, for that matter) - presumably from hazy audience recollections. It's reasonable they'd play New Potato though, as they played it again on 6/8/69.

As for the missing reels of late '69, I talked a bit about those (with a list) here:
http://deadessays.blogspot.com/2009/08/strange-case-of-1970.html
Not sure if the second half of 10/26/69 is in the Vault - it would be nice to have the missing Smokestack Lightning from 12/21/69. But Lemieux has confirmed that the Dark Star>Stephen reel from 12/20/69 is missing from the Vault.

2/5/70 - Lemieux has said that the reel before the Eleven is missing. It's one of those ironies that both the AUD and the SBD are missing the middle of the show!

2/8/70 - Since Smokestack Lightning was released, I assume there's more of this show in the Vault (probably with a tapeflip in the Dark Star) - fortunately our AUD sounds pretty good.

6/5/70 - Interestingly, Lemieux hasn't played anything from the electric sets of 6/4 or 6/5. (Which probably doesn't mean anything, he's skipped many shows.) I would guess all those nasty cuts on the 6/5 SBD come from the original reels, but who knows, they could be from the tape copies.

6/12/70 - Lemieux did put the Other One on the Taper's Section, and mentioned that the show suffered from sound problems. But that was normal for a Dead show! I'd like to hear more....

1/21/71 - Lemieux played a few tracks; I wouldn't expect this show to be anything special (or even worthwhile) - but he also said the Vault has the Good Lovin' from 1/24/71 (that's cut on our copy), and said it is "unlistenable".

3/17/71 - Lemieux said there were bad tapecuts during Hard to Handle and the Other One....the worst spots, of course!

5/29/71 - Aside from the Other One, this show also has the longest-ever Hard to Handle, which has never been aired (aside from the awful AUD). And I also wonder if there's an SBD of the first set from 5/30, with its Good Lovin'.

March '72 - It would be nice to get the rest of 3/25 in SBD, our AUD has some bad gaps....sigh. 3/26 is indeed our #1 missing show of '72....Lemieux has at least put the Good Lovin's from 3/26 and 3/27 on the Taper's Section.

Nov '70 - I didn't know any little bits were missing from our Port Chester tapes, considering how many copies are here (some of them painstakingly compiled).
I believe our "11/23" show is now settled as coming from 11/16, taped by our usual Fillmore East secret-sbd crew.
The Good Lovin' fragment said to be from 11/16 is an AUD tape. I haven't seen it on the Archive.
11/11 and 11/20/70 are very similar shows, both having encore jams with Hot Tuna...I remember 11.20 having much better sound quality, though. As for ever hearing another SBD from Nov '70.....fat chance!

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Poster: Jim F Date: Jul 1, 2010 1:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In the Vault but not in circulation?

Lol I didn't mean to make it out like I was asking those questions for you or anyone in particular to reply really, but thank you for taking the time to respond.

I've always enjoyed your various comprehensive breakdowns of various songs, eras, etc. and have found them to be a nice little resource. Only recently have I discovered that you compiled all that stuff on your blog, I spent a good amount of time reading a lot of it the other night. Great stuff, thanks for putting all that together.

And I feel foolish, I said that 5/9/69 would have been the final NPCaboose...I totally spaced on 6/8!

...agreed on the strangeness of the auds and sbds of 2/5/70 and 5/3/69 both missing the same things. I always found that terribly ironic. It would also be nice for more SBD of 2/8/70 to come out, but yeah, that aud is plenty good.

As for Port Chester-I dunno if anything is missing really(aside from 2 acoustic songs from 6/24), just that I tried putting together a little review of 6/24 and found myself frustrated and confused at trying to put it all in order as it was played for the purposes of linking people who aren't as obsessive as I to the shows here on the archive. When going through the Port Chester shows a month or two back for some reason I thought that there might have been some stuff missing from 11/7 I think it was? For the most part I think with all the various sources we have just about everything.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jul 1, 2010 12:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In the Vault but not in circulation?

Oh yes, there is part of the acoustic set missing from 6/24... And the files here are rather scattered, not labeled well.
But considering shows from the previous year where whole Dark Stars are gone, a couple missing acoustic songs are nothing!

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 1, 2010 1:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In the Vault but not in circulation?

I would love to ' clean ' up how that show is presented . Taking Bears' word , it was all one show beginning w/ CR&S . The way it is presented now reminds me of the old days of tapes all over the place , w/out a DeadBase .